Awe yes books, definitely better than movies imho. I think I will read it myself, then watch the movie again.

Yay for more backstory in the book - and the contradiction with the comics doesn't really matter because it sounds like the book hangs together a bit better.

Yes, the book info explains a lot. The Orion language is called Orion-Prime?!? Anyway, Phaedyme and Zyx: break it up. Ph is not attacking you, Zyx: (s)he is just analysing the thing. You con't seem to mind when I nitpick the science, so apply the xsame logic to his/her nitpicking of the plot. Also, as opposed to hurling epithets, letys try to talk this over as adults. Even if some of us are still technically minors.

Phaedyme = her

I'm not fighting, I'm confused about Zyx's response.

I'm also not going to hold back my frustration when someone says something frustratingly obtuse. I don't think the tone of my response has any bearing on the message, which is that Zyx totally missed the point of what I said, got defensive as if I were attacking him, and told me to stop talking that way about my reaction to the film.

Then stop wtfing. Seriously. It gives entirely the wrong impression.

...

The tone of my response is fine. The words I used are fine. When someone says something as mind-boggling as Zyx did in response to my comment, I think "what the fuck are you talking about?" is a reasonable response. It's not a matter of maturity. Removing those words won't change the content of my response, and I don't think I should be required to respond with a level tone when I'm told I'm talking about something wrong - or more specifically, told to shut up.

Also, look up - I edited my response.

I'm not telling you to shut up. I'm telling you that swearing at people generally causes them to yell at you.

I didn't say you were telling me to shut up, but that was the vibe I got from Zyxspilon's response, and what I was talking about.

I can be misleading at times, granted. I'm neither trying to figure out what you think or asking for precisions on the "Time travel is a cheat" Kirk dialog line that you claimed as being a suspension of disbelief trick by writers anymore; we possibly both have similar interpretations of the story itself.

Nit picking is when someone goes into soooooo microscopic of details that they miss the forest around the tree. Why i was trying to introduce the stress factor of young recruits (including Kirk, btw) when the stakes were slightly higher... i guess, we were observing Kirk youth struggles with responsabilities in that film as illustrated by the Kobayashi-Maru apple chewing behavior - slacked up, relaxed and not stuck in the Doomsday Machine where experience needed to be, i dunno, something like composed & determined.

Blame my military rank for knowing what hierarchy means on a mission; Undiscovered Country expressed it much more than i possibly could insist or explain with personal experiences.

Or as Uhura clearly says it by the end of this Star Trek; I sure hope you know what you're doing!

THAT's the kind of hypnotic lines of dialog that can match storyline concept with leaves on a branch when taken into context.

Arrrrgggghhh, if i came across as defensive - it must be my fault. After all, we move verbs before structural phrasing in Québec, twice i might add. We speak in riddles, and peek at adjectives with keen eyes. Etc.

But, i would highly recommend this site (mid '80s versions of some of his books, here on a shelf somewhere) before delving any deeper into specific 'Character' plotting devices used by professionals.

I'm just a typo freak. And got blamed too often for it.

Want the "...Panic" episode so that i can prove it to you?

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It’s funny I just saw the film the other day and before coming here firmly believed that it was crap but after reading through the majority of posts here I am not so sure anymore.

That said I still have my problems with the film:

1. Why is Spock kissing Uhura in the transporter he is her C.O. for Christ sake. That and I hate how they made Spock more human I always liked the Tuvok ultra logical version of Vulcans even if Spock is half human

2. Why didn't Kirk pull out his phaser at the star of the fight on the drilling platform? Honestly who brings a sword to what should be a gun fight?

3. Why didn't Kirk and Zulu automatically get blown off the drill in the stratosphere? The winds must be like being in a hurricane up there.

4. When given the choice between a vehicle that hovers, like the cop's bike pulling Kirk over, and a wheeled vehicle why choose the wheeled one. (A minor point and admittedly it comes down to taste but still a curiosity)

5. Why wasn't the the reason for Romulus's destruction adequately explained in the film? How long does it take to say "The Star was 130 lightyears from Romulus and the shockwave speed up so we couldn't get off the planet in time"?

But my biggest concern is not that there was little philosophy, but none what so ever. Why doesn't Kirk confront Nero at some point and ask what the hell he is doing destroying the group of people that were trying to save Romulus in the first place. Not to mention why he wants to destroy the Federation who doesn't seem to have any role in the attempted rescue of Vulcan, of course I forget who built Spock's ship. To me science fiction is about looking at how humanity copes with the new possibilities that advance technology brings. This I think is beautifully explored through the idea of the prime directive which was a hugely important concept in TNG which is the best series IMHO. Yet in this film it is largely about the action with no thought provoking content, no commentary on the problems with time travel which makes the film not much of a Star Trek film IMO.

I also wonder, if (most) everyone on Earth uses hovering vehicles, why are there still roads. My dad is in charge of logistics at a large universtiy, and he tells me that roads take a LOAD of money to maintain.

1. When my mother dies, i'll go to her funeral. Maybe some friends or people will try to comfort me.

2. Hand eye coordination reflex, i guess.

3. If that's the case, parachuting them wouldn't have been used either.

4. I've also got a uncle who collects cars - doesn't have a Ford-T though. '60s Corvette in the 23rd must be quite rare and precious for a rebel kid that young.

5. I even found the mind melt a bit too Voiced Over and long (somehow), although a GDI scene of the supernova shockwave causing the destruction of Romulus of about 15+ seconds could have shown it but this would have occured before the Kelvin encounter from Narada's crew POV. Dropping the ball too fast and taking dialog away from Nero.

Usually I don't read the movie books when they come out. I read the one for Nemesis and that's about it.

But Frogboy's summary of the book sounds like it fixes a lot of issues. Are these books considered canon?

The licensed Pocket Books ones are (I think). If they don't have the little Paramount logo on the back, they probably are not. I am sure there are some inconsistencies, but nothing that I have noticed.