Kirk had a childhood twice as fast as his father's death it seems, the disbelief is more about how Ambassador Spock had to reveal some confusing truths for the yet to be Captain, Phaedyme.

To think that writers would bother making the difference for us (as Kirk is "reasoning" over the validity of elder Spock story) is to admit instinct kicked in his mind while he was beaming back.

He sure cleared up the thick air simply by nodding his way off Delta Vega.

Nits in numerical order:

1. Why are there still farms in Iowa? Doesn't the Federation have REPLICATORS??? (But then again, we're changing everything ELSE in the seires, so why not that?)
   
2. When ever McCoy shoots him with a hypo, Kirk yells or does something else to indicate that it hurts. Star Trek hypos use an atomization system, which is painless.(But then again, we're changing everything ELSE in the seires, so why not that?)
3. OK, so McCoy's mud-(something) vaccine causes Kirk's hands to swell dramatically. Ok, the vaccine seems a bit rapid in its effects (It can take hours for something to get absorbed into a person's system), but not being a doctor, I will refrain from comment. However, with that much fluid or blood or air or whatever in his hands, Kirk should be in EXCRUCIATING pain. But he doesn't seem to notice the swelling until he looks at himself.
4. Not only do Kirk and gang make it from hard vacuum (probably ORBIT) to breatheable atmosphere in a surprisingly short period of time, but there is also no re-entry heat. And, they slow down from sevearl hundred KPS to survivable fall speed in an instant: the G-force from that sort of thing would puree any human, even with a shock-absorbing suit. Finally, they do this with PARACHUTES! I don't have the #s in front of me, but that does not seem like it would work.
5. Ok, so for whatever reason Nero is compelled to drill into Vulcan's core to drop the hole. Then, the planet is destroyed in a matter of minutes. However, I read somewhere that it would take hours or even days for a black hole at an Earth-sized planets's core to destroy it. Granted, the planet would become uninhabitible long before then, but in the movie the whole thing implodes in a few minutes.
6. There seems to be an absecnce of the usual acceleration ring around all of the movie's black holes, but then again, these ARE the Magical "Red Matter" Kind Of Black Holes.
7. In order to produce a black hole of the size pictured in the movie, the "Red Matter" would have to be EXTREMELY dense, dense enough that the blob in Spock-Prime's ship would be distorting the light around it. Yet we see no warping or other odd effects (then again, maybe THAT'S why it looks red....)
8. When Kirk's pod crashes onto Delta Vega, it makes a rather small hole in the ice, considering that it FELL FROM SPACE!!!! (I have seen several complaints that this Delta Vega does not look like the Delta Vega in TOS, but most Earth-like environments DO have polar ice caps, so that can be explained.)
9. The large, red entity that chased Kirk seems to see remarkebly well, considering that it does not appear to have any eyes!!
10. Spock-Prime then fends the creature off with a burning torch. Why did Nero give him a TORCH? "I'm going to stick him on this ice cap to watch his planet die, and I'd better give him a torch in case he gets attacked by a large ice preditor with ESP(see #9)"? And, how did he light it?
11. The size of Vulcan in D-V's sky indicates that it is about as far away from Vulcan as the moon is from Earth, maybe a little farther. If so, a) Spock-Prime would experiance a considerable lag in watching the fireworks, and b ) [ EDIT: bloody smilies] the tidal forces from the balck hole would quickly destroy D-V, as well. Even if my math is off, the effect would not be pretty.
12. A regular super-nova could never threaten anything more than it's immediate system in the time frame depicted by the movie, unless it had some sort of Subspace component that allows it to travel fater than light. Even then, I find it hard to beieve that it would threaten the ENTIRE UNIVERSE!!
13. Also, how come these universe-destroying celestial events never seem to happen in a place or time where the Fed cannot correct them?
14. This is just a complaint about beaming in general, but it especially applies to the water scene: unless someone is beaming into a perfect vacuum, there is going to be air or something in their place. Where does it go? The only thing I can think of is that it is somehow displaced by the transport process, but that would create a definate "pop" whenever someone beamed down.
15. An average human can hold their breath for around a minute before passing out, which in water means drowning (some people can do more, but they are swimmers etc. who have special training). Now, even assuming that there is air in the tank itself, Scotty is underwater for considreably longer than that, and he comes out conscious and sputtering.
16. The tank again. When Kirk opens the hatch, there is surprisingly little water, considering that the tube was full and apparently under some level of pressure. I would have expected an absolute torrent.
17. Nero bores a hole into San Francisco. The problem is, that hole looks like it goes deep into the seabed, probably penetrating the crust. If so, even though Kirk saves the day, there is going to be MASSIVE geological disruption all through the city. Earthquakes, probably some lava, maybe an few islands forming in the bay, that sort of thing. Yet, at the end of the movie, eveything seems hunky-dory.
18. The Narada lingers in that black hole for an awefully long time. It shouold have gone right in in the space of a few seconds.
19. Also, the black hole that swallows the Narada seems about the same size as the one that ate Vulcan. Since there was hundreds of times more "Red Matter" involved in the creation of the latter, it seems like it would have been, i dunno, HUNDREDS OF TIMES BIGGER?
20. Finally, I find it a bit odd that a black hole destroys the Narada, considering that it passed through A BLACK HOLE in the beginning with no ill effects. (Actuaolly, this could be explained by #19, if the second hole actually WAS larger.
21. Yep, one last one: In the conversation between the two Spocks, yound Spock taks to his older self. This seems odd, considering that Prime would remember everything he though in the "old days". (Spock is widely considered to have a photographic memory.)

I thought the movie was great as well..  Much better than I truly expected.     The question I was left with was the destruction of Vulcan..   What did I miss?   I do not remember in the original series or any other series the mention of Vulcan being destroyed.    And we know it remains that way because OLD Spock mentions finding a new planet to become the new Vulcan.. not to mention that he was even IN the past still at that point.

The 'Engine Room' I also thought was out of character as well.   I was looking for something that would be of a cross between the engine room of the first U.S.S. Enterprise seen in the series 'Enterprise' vs the engine room of the original series Enterprise ship.   This engine room I think would be much more in tune with being in the very first built ship with all those pipes and such.. and as things progress of course we get to the more 'modern' designs.

The interaction of the actors, the humor.. all were done outstanding in terms of 'Star Trek' as those of us who grew up on the original series remember.  I seriously did not think they could pull this off.  But not only did they pull it off, they exceeded everything I think. 

It is a movie I definitely will see again and I do recommend.

Now I need to find some place to try a sky dive like that one!  Most awesome!   I never got to experience anything quite like that combat jump in my military career.. ohh how I would jump at the chance!  THAT was cool for those of us who know what combat jumps are like.

Zyx,

I have no idea what you're talking about. That is, I don't know what you think I'm responding to. I just wanted to link to tvtropes to expand upon what I'd said earlier, and to point out my own distaste for Trek time travel. I was not making a comment on Kirk's childhood (which, no matter how quickly it passed, was more than we'd seen previously).

I was strictly responding to the time travel conversation.

Scoutdog,

Yeah, I agree with several of those. I think somewhere around the time they shot red matter into the Vulcan core, I just decided to give up on scientific explanations for anything. Now, I'm going to be a geek:

1. Replicators were invented after TOS, and before TNG.

3. I have had one of my hands swell up dramatically, and it wasn't really excrucating. It was itchy, though - and I noticed it because my hand felt fairly stiff. That said, I think that was played for laughs, which I think brings about another set of criticisms.

8. The pod probably had some kind of deceleration thing going on.

9. It might have seen via sonar, or tracked via scent, or had some other means to sense its surroundings.

10. I imagine Spock improvised. but also, Nero wanted Spock to survive to see Vulcan's destruction. It's not as if a torch would enable him to get back to Nero's ship to seize control.

18. This is about as dramatically problematic as all those times people live long enough to deliver a few last words, before their eyes close and they fade away.

21. I can't figure out what your objection is here - that Spock spoke to his younger self, or what?

Seriously, why should anyone care about little things like these? It just a movie! It is just as realistic/unrealistic as any other movie. I thought that the film was very well done.

This one is a prequel. Maybe atomisation hasn't been invented yet. Did you ever think of that?

Thats because they don't show you what happened every second of the journey. They cut out the boring bits. People do not complain that in the film Apollo 13, they didn't take long enough to reach space. Its a very dumb argument.

Maybe it used sonar like a bat. The creature from Alien has no eyes, but people don't complain about that. Anyway, who cares about such a silly little detail?

It only threatened the galaxy, not the whole universe! Where did you get that from? Anyway, the radiation alone is enough to kill lifeforms in nearby systems. Maybe the star that went supernova was the star that Romulus orbited or atleast close by.

Suspension of disbelief (hung a lampshade, as you put it) is a well known story device experimented with for a number of reasons;

-- Unless you clearly define what is it that Kirk says or does to create such an observation from you, how can i rationalize your thoughts within context other than through wild guesses?

So, from this perspective, i must resume;

- The story paradigm might be illustrated with these rather simplistic terms.

1) Narada targets two planets for revenge.

2) Enterprise meets it twice, fails once.

3) Narada is destroyed.

- The story structure then exploits what is called the mid-point and spins (as per Syd Field's theory)

1) Kelvin encounters (accidental i might add)

2) Starfleet recruits train for years

3) Vulcan under attack (spin)

4) Pike captured, tortured and refuses to reveal Earth defense (MID-POINT, but not in *my* mind)

5) Sulu & Kirk beamed up after failing

6) Spock dumps Kirk on Delta Vega (spin)

7) Ambassador Spock's reveals, Montgomery+Kirk back aboard

8) Spock fails to save his mother

9) Kirk battles it ALL (everything is on the line at this point) out with him (*True* MID-POINT)

10) On route to Earth

11) Chekov's Saturn trick

12) Spock & Kirk split apart (spin)

13) Narada mining drill sabotaged by Spock

14) Enterprise covers Jellyfish for the ramming *attempt* but red triggers under control (spin)

15) Kirk beams out

16) Black Hole collapses, Nero stuck on the Horizon for awhile.

17) Warp core down - implosion.

9 to 17 are in Act-3; usual paradigm delayed by Orci/Kurtzman pattern.

Innovation in basic principles of screenwriting.

Zyx,

Kirk turns to Spock, says "Time travel is cheating" and then enters the transporter. That specific comment hangs a lampshade on the whole premise.

I really disapointed with the plot.

Each time authors become too lazy to learn the Star Trek story they invent some "alternative universe" or timeline change ...

And btw: I liked "old style" Romulans way more.

1. I have seen a replicator in TOS. Of course, it's called a "food synthesiser", but is sure looks like a replicator. (They are most prominent in "the trouble with tribbles".

3. I suppose it might not be painful, but he would definately notice something was up...

10. I could imagine Nero giving Spock a fire, but improvising? There is nothing but ice there, i.e. no flammable organic matter.

18. True. I also noticed that the black holes in the movie look like a 2-D disc. The real kind are perfect spheres. But then again, these ARE the Magical "Red Matter" Kind Of Black Holes.

21. No, that the older spock needed to wait for the younger one to speak: he remembers the conversation from when he was younger. Therefore, he does not need to actually HEAR his younger self speaking, because he remembers saying those exact same words and thinking those exact same thoughs when HE was younger.

22. Yes, some more! In the prologue, the crew of the Kelvin monitors their capitain's vital sins and can tell when his heart rate rises and when he dies. However, when Pike comes aboard the Narada and is captured and tortured, the Enterprise crew doesn't know about it. They should have, if they had used the same monitoring tech, which at this point is at least 20 years old!

23. Spock blows open the hangar doors on the Narada and escapes. However, in the interior scenes, there is no outrushing air. I realise there might be a force field or something, but it would take a few seconds to come up.

24. The enterprise needs to use a warp core explosion to escape the black hole. However, at this point, they have not reached the event horizon, so the escape vbelocity should be BELOW light speed.

1. Those really aren't replicators as of TNG canon.

3. Totally agreed - like I said, i think they played that for laughs. My comment about swelling probably being itchy was just minor detail.

10. Did you follow the link I gave you? Kirk improvized a gorram mortar while fighting the Gorn captain. What I mean is, Trek characters are more like pulp characters and pull off implausible MacGyver stuff all the time.

18. Red matter's darned weird, really. I wouldn't be surprised if it were some kind of freaky holographic matter (as in every piece carries the blueprint for the whole, not that it's literally a hologram) that causes the same effect no matter the quantity, just to handwave the ending away. Probably with some technobabble about zero point or dark energy and/or dark matter thrown in.

21. Spock doesn't remember the conversation from when he was younger, because that conversation never happened in his past. His past was one in which Vulcan was never destroyed. The movie created a branching timeline. But whether or not he remembered it, I'm sure he had his reasons for meeting himself and letting his younger self initiate contact.

I'm pretty sure nothing in the movie actually resembled a singularity or a supernova. I'm surprised you didn't mention how not only did a supernova spread several light years at ftl speeds as well as threaten worlds that far away with literal destruction could be instantly snuffed out by a black hole. I mean, you mentioned it wrt Vulcan, but that exploding star was even more egregious.

And 24 made absolutely no sense to me. I mean, "Scotty, rocket jump the Enterprise out of the black hole!"

I tend to think of the 'protein resequencers' and 'synthesizers' as incredibly archaic replicator technology used only when necessary. And still, in the 24th century, we know plenty of people who don't like/refuse to use replicated food, so I don't see why farming would be outdated.

I took that comment as a straight forward joke from Kirk not a tricky explanation by writers.

It's not even a way to nitpick in order to find perfection in a story... the funny stuff we all live in TRUE life can only be rationalize at the degree we perceive it. This film also had humourous daily weirdness;

- We don't have any officers to replace. Did they?

- I beamed Archer's beagle. Porthos still alive?

- Inertial dampers off. Sulu forgot them?

- Spock recognized as Jellyfish pilot. Fascinating?

- Pavel Chekov's russian accent. Exaggeration or hilarious?

- Nyota Uhura knows more about the Romulan language than Pike's best. Coincidence or fact?

Hang on *above* the lampshades if you wish -- but take these spontaneous reactions by recruits for what it is. And consider that the opportunity was there for plenty.

I really had to think this over before risking an explanation worth anyone's imagination, ScoutDog.

How big is the Red Matter container?

It's a surgical mining hole of about 15kms down of solid rock (density plays a role on the continental shelf) until it reaches magma. Besides, find me another director who would resist toppling the bridge with GDI effects.

Instantly recognizable, funnel of flames backdropped upon evacuation of Starfleet HQ. Cinematic.

Zyx, wtf?

Could you please be clear as to what you think I'm saying? Because you're coming across as extremely defensive and reacting as if I'm attacking the movie for saying that Kirk's line highlights the way the reboot was handled. It's not a nitpick, and if you think I'm reaching to call it a lampshade hanging, I suggest you don't know wtf I'm talking about.

That and you're coming across as pissed off because I'm taking a step beyond saying "I liked the film" and offering specific bits of information about what I liked - and taking those bits as "ZOMG TREK SUCKED"

You should probably follow that tvtropes link I put up and see that tropes aren't inherently good or bad, they're just present, and can be good or bad.

I just finished reading the book and found it considerably more satisfying than the movie as it dealt with a lot of my pet peeves.

Here are just a few it resolveD:

1. The kid hitchiking when young Kirk is driving the car is Kirk's big brother who is running away from home because their step father was just such a jerk to them.

2. Kirk drove the car into a quarry and it is explicitly called that in the book.

3. The star that exploded exploded 130 years prior to it hitting Romulus. It was a super giant and the shock wave wasn't detected until it was nearly too late.

4. The shockwave's progression increased in velocity over time which wasn't expected which is why Romulus was destroyed.

5. When Spock Prime meets Kirk in the cave, Spock explicitly says that the odds of them meeting at that time in that place are so astronomically tiny that "Dr. McCoy would argue that it is proof that there's a higher power at work." When they happen to run into Scotty, another big coincidence Spock starts hypothesizing that the timeline is trying to repair itself as these coincidences seem absurdly unlikely.

6. Earth-based defenses had specifically attacked the drill but had been unable to damage it do to the Romulan ship intercepting shots and surface fighters that had attempted to destroy the drill.

7. The Romulan ship had to be destroyed at the end to prevent it from time shifting again. The Romulan ship could not operate warp drive and have its shields up at once. It needed warp drive to perform the time shift. The Enterprise was able to destroy the ship because it had its shields down.

8. Kirk was sleeping with the Orion chick because she was one of the technicians on the test and through her was able to learn how to break in and install his subroutine.

9. There are numerous very excellent scenes not in the movie that were in the book including:

a. More discussion about Admiral Archer's prize beagle.

b. The very last scene in the book is Admiral Archer's beagle materializing on the transporter of the Enterprise.

c. Uhura talking to the Orion chick in Orion-Prime about how Kirk had bedded half the females at the academy - not all of whom were humanoid only to discover that Kirk also speaks Orion-Prime and that she's exaggerating and that all of them were humanoid -- he thinks.

d. The debate between Kirk and Spock at the hearing is much more interesting and makes it clear that Kirk would likely have won the debate. 

e. Some great lines about how "Kirk never loses - the man doesn't know how to lose."

f. The super nova was not going to "destroy the galaxy" but because it was a super giant, it would definitely have wiped out a lot of habitable planets in the alpha quadrant.

g. The Romulans had every intention of taking their ship back to Romulus after they were done. They didn't before our of fear of losing control of their ship. The crew debated with Nero over whether they should destroy any Federation planets other than Vulcan and were anxious to destroy the star that destroyed Romulus and then return to Romulus.

h. The ship was an "exploratory mining" ship that was heavily armed because it was left to fend for itself in very remote areas and often had very valuable ore on board that it needed to be able to protect.